shifting issues

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Openable
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Location: Nine Mile Falls WA.

shifting issues

#1

Post by Openable » 15 Feb 2018, 12:16

Hi folks,
I hope I can get some advice here. Long story short, after an alignment and brake inspection last Tuesday, I was excited to see how the car drove. I have owned it 14 years and have never driven it. Little history, its a 71 XR7 vert. Fresh 351c with a mild build but all new, I also went with a new AOD again mild build with HD clutches and shift kit. As for the rear end, have a new 9" with fresh 3:50 gears and limited slip. The motor was hot started at the builders so we could break in the cam, set timing, adjust the carb, verify oil pressure and check for fluid leaks. I knew the motor would need to sit on a stand for a year or so before it could be installed. Anyway after getting the car off the trailer, I thought I was ready for a short test run around the block.
I noticed first off, I didn't have first unless I held the shifter in first with a bit of peddle pressure, then it would shift into 1st gear. From a dead stop, in drive and a normal acceleration, no first, when shifting from 2nd to 3rd, and 3rd to 4th, it seems like I don't have enough engine RPM, the motor kind of struggled to keep up. I also noticed I couldn't get the car to downshift with more pedal. The shift points were set up with the pressure gauge from the transmission and following the LOKAR directions to a tee. This was a pain in the ass, the oil pressure would jump quite a bit with very little cable movement. Is there an easier way to set the TV cable adjustment. I know you can toast a transmission fairly quickly with an improper TV adjustment. Although I didn't cut any corners on the build, I don't have another $1500.00 just cause I was stupid. So what should be the RPM range during a shift? The indent's on the stock FMX I believe were 1-2-D, how should this line up with a 4 speed? I thought it would be the same with D having the 3rd and OD or 4th.
Any help or advise would be appreciated. I need to do some more light road tests and record the tachometer and speed at the shifts but, we woke up to 7" of snow on Wednesday...ugh!

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wish
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Re: shifting issues

#2

Post by wish » 15 Feb 2018, 15:00

I'm sure all of this is covered in the LOKAR instructions, but sometime it'll have a different view on things or another tip that may make things make more sense.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hot-rod- ... ft-timing/

The symptoms of Zimmer in the article seem similar to yours and my first thought was the tv cable and wondering if you had the motion ratio on it right or if it was perhaps moving too far with the throttle inputs you were providing.

I believe the AOD from the Mustangs is set up as 1-D-OD without any 2 position so the number of detentes should be proper but their spacing may be off as well if the arms aren't matched up properly.
Just my $.02
wish
69 Cougar, That 70s Truck, 84 Cherokee Chief 2dr, 88 Grand Wagoneer, 95 Grand Cherokee,96 Mustang

Openable
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Joined: 17 Jan 2018, 21:06
Location: Nine Mile Falls WA.

Re: shifting issues

#3

Post by Openable » 15 Feb 2018, 20:22

Thanks for the input,
I put this together last fall but the weather turned so I didn't have any time to road test. I also watched the Zimmer video but, as I said was months ago. I best go back to school and review my notes. I'm no mechanic by trade, rather an auto enthusiast. OJT is where I pick this stuff up. I built a mustang in 1980 which I just sold last year but, nothing between then and this car and I didn't venture too far from stock components. Anyway, I'm sure I can salvage it, there are great minds willing to help a guy out when it comes to hobbyist's like myself. I just have to find them and tap into the knowledge they hold.

Thanks Wish, I think I'll start again with Zimmer.

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badcatt
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Location: Camano Island WA

Re: shifting issues

#4

Post by badcatt » 15 Feb 2018, 21:45

As far as AOD's go; I am Sargent Schultz. I know nothing! I did a T-5Z swap in to my White 70 XR-7.
Neal Jacobson.
1970 XR-7 White "Ginger"
1970 XR-7 Convertible Blue
1971 XR-7 Bright Blue with Blue "Up Beat" interior
1970 Standard 428CJ Competition Yellow The New Money Pit.
See ya on the hiways,
The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter,
they are an entire banquet
.
- Mark Twain -

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Yorgle
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Re: shifting issues

#5

Post by Yorgle » 16 Feb 2018, 11:25

Getting the TV cable attached at the right spot on the carb throttle lever is the key. I fought with this for a LONG time back when I ran AODs in my 68. The throttle lever and the TV lever on the transmission have to move exactly at a 1:1 ratio which in my case required slotting the hole on the throttle lever so I could fine-tune where the cable attached. Without the 1:1 ratio, any adjustments you make using the pressure gauge will be off as soon as the lever moves. Also, be sure you are using a 75 or 80 psi gauge- not the standard 100psi gauge which is not accurate enough. I taped my gauge to the cowl so I could watch it while test driving. Once you have the 1:1 ratio, set the TV cable so that both the throttle and TV levers are at fully closed position. Then turn in the idle speed screw to where you think it should be (or even a little higher) and start the car. If the gauge doesn't jump to at least 15psi, immediately shut down and re-adjust the TV cable. Start the car again and keep doing this until you get 15psi at your regular idle- I know this is high and that eventually you want only 2 or 3psi at idle, but I recommend starting high for safety reasons. Once you have 15psi at idle begin test driving and gradually decrease the psi at idle until the car starts shifting properly. Each car will have a sweet spot where it will shift properly. For my 68, it was at 5psi at idle. Again, heed my advice: DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR AT ALL until you are absolutely positive you have oil pressure! I fried the front pump on my second AOD just driving onto ramps so I could hook up a gauge! That was the last straw for me and I made the swap to a T5.
1968 XR-7 Augusta Green, J-Code, 5 litre, Autolite 6100, 5 spd, convertible with heated seats, cruise control and rear sway bar.

BTW, I think electronic ignition is pointless.

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Yorgle
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Re: shifting issues

#6

Post by Yorgle » 16 Feb 2018, 11:28

I should mention that the AOD shift pattern is 1st- Drive- Overdrive. Ford was too cheap to make new shifters for the cars so they built this screwball pattern into the AOD. Nevertheless, you can force an AOD to hold in second gear by starting in first, upshift to Drive and as soon as it shifts into 2nd, pull the shifter back into first while still on the gas. It will then hold in 2nd until you shift back into Drive.
1968 XR-7 Augusta Green, J-Code, 5 litre, Autolite 6100, 5 spd, convertible with heated seats, cruise control and rear sway bar.

BTW, I think electronic ignition is pointless.

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9F91H581221
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Re: shifting issues

#7

Post by 9F91H581221 » 16 Feb 2018, 12:47

Throw away the tool. Pull the dipstick and smell the fluid. Does it have a burnt odor? If it's o-k then tighten the cable. Make sure there is no slack at idle. Better to start off too tight than too loose.

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BadBoyJ
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Location: California

Re: shifting issues

#8

Post by BadBoyJ » 16 Feb 2018, 18:00

First did you use this shift shaft? https://www.cjponyparts.com/performance ... PASS53104/
It will allow you to use stock shifter. Second the lokar cable return spring is crap, add a return spring to the TV arm on the transmission to settle down the varying pressure. Third the 35psi at idle in neutral is a starting point, may have to increase pressure to get shift points right. What carburetor are you running? you might need this. https://www.sonnax.com/parts/2766-tv-ca ... arburetors
John

1969 Cougar Eliminator (Yellow/Black)
1970 Ford Ranchero ( M-code )
2005 F-250 crewcab 4x4
2014 Dodge grand caravan( wife's car )
2007 Yamaha WR450 (gots to play in the DIRT)

Openable
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Location: Nine Mile Falls WA.

Re: shifting issues

#9

Post by Openable » 16 Feb 2018, 21:33

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Wow, some great info here. I'll try to fill you in. No I did not buy a shift shaft, I fabricated a bracket for the transmission that seemed to have the correct geometry. Park was park, neut was neut, rev. was rev. and so on...am I missing something? I'm running the Edelbrock 1406 carb. The fittment of the LOKAR cable seemed fine, I do know at WOT, the TV cable has pulled the transmission TV lever the full range of travel. I just took a whiff of the transmission fluid and it smells as if I just poured it from the bottle so I think I'm golden. I did not know about the 1:1 ratio, I don't know if I overlooked that but, I'll check it tomorrow. I guess I'll trek into town tomorrow and see if I can find an 80 psi OP gauge, the one I was using was 100 psi. I too have heard the LOKAR spring should be backed up but, with everything new, I thought I had some time. Mother nature took a turn for the worst within the last couple days 6" of snow on the ground, more on the way and 20 degree temps for the foreseeable future and, I was thinking of getting the mower out last Monday...oh the great Pacific North West. I'll get the fireplace in the shop going tomorrow, put the car on jack stands and crawl under to take a look at a few things and take a pic or two to post. Is it possible to do some of these shift tests with the car on jack stands or is there not enough load?
I get discouraged a little but I'd be fooling myself if I I thought after a fresh build and 14 years that the first test drive would be with out a few quirks. I just need to keep focused. I do appreciate all the help, I wished there was a forum like this for capitol hill... maybe then, both sides would quit acting like children!

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BadBoyJ
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Joined: 08 Nov 2011, 19:52
Location: California

Re: shifting issues

#10

Post by BadBoyJ » 17 Feb 2018, 10:01

John

1969 Cougar Eliminator (Yellow/Black)
1970 Ford Ranchero ( M-code )
2005 F-250 crewcab 4x4
2014 Dodge grand caravan( wife's car )
2007 Yamaha WR450 (gots to play in the DIRT)

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