Carb or EFI ?

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9F91H581221
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Re: Carb or EFI ?

#11

Post by 9F91H581221 »

MSD is owned by Holley. However MSD's own design called Atomic EFI is still available and competitively priced. Few years ago when I bought the Atomic EFI it was about $800 more than it is now. One reason I chose the MSD was because it had a nice appearance. The other reason I chose the MSD kit was because MSD also had a plug and play stand alone TCM available that would operate a Ford trans like AODE or E4OD. At the time it appeared the others like Holley, FAST and FItech would only operate a GM trans. My plan was to put this on a 79 F-350 with a 460 and E4OD. That project got sidelined. The EFI was used on a 68 Colony Park with a mild 482. The installation took some time to wire and plumb. The set-up of operating parameters was easy. We did flood it on the first start. Once we realized what happened, holding the throttle open allow it to clear and start up. I did not have this control the ignition timing. The unit ran pretty good. Cold starting was easy as the EFI would compensate. Once in a while it would hic-up but instantly recover. The 482 did have a mechanical problem, though I don't believe it would have an effect on the EFI. Also, the engine wasn't run much before being taken apart so the EFI didn't have much time to adapt and learn to various driving environments. The engine is back in the car and soon we will be running it again with the EFI. Just to mention, I am running a C-6 in this vehicle so the TCM wasn't used. The MSD Atomic EFI does not have a Ford kickdown lever on the linkage for use with a 3 speed like FMX, C-4 or C-6. I did end up buying and combining 2 different kick down kits to make it work. Yet,it still needs one more piece to make the kickdown complete. Looking around Summits site for more kickdown pieces it does appear that Holley offers an EFI with an integrated Ford kickdown lever.
So far that is my experience with it. I'm sure quite a bit has changed in the 5 years since I bought it. Another question is how long will Holley support the MSD design of EFI?
I've heard some negatives about FItech in another forum, but didn't get details beyond "it doesn't run right". FIrech is affordable and popular so it must work for the most part. The problems may have come from improper installation or set up.

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mfc133
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Re: Carb or EFI ?

#12

Post by mfc133 »

I've had the Holley Sniper with the Hyperspark ignition on my car for a year, it's worked great for me. If you get the Holley fuel pump module (wasn't available when I installed mine) it goes right where the factory sender sits in the tank, you don't even need to run a return fuel line. They just released a stealth model that looks just like a Holley 4150 (again not available when I installed mine, wish it was). There is a lot of talk about the Sniper being sensitive to RFI, but I haven't had any problems with that myself.
-Mike

1968 Cougar Standard, 302 4V, auto, Madras Blue

DieselD
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Re: Carb or EFI ?

#13

Post by DieselD »

xr7g428 wrote:
01 Feb 2020, 12:51
Sniper is pretty nice but a little sensitive to RFI issues. Total cost is a bit higher than most people think since you have to add anew fuel pump and lines.
The sniper has been on top of my list for EFI along with my dads mustang. I have not read any situations where RFI interference was an issue with the sniper. Anything in particular to look for? Assuming this would be coming from low end spark plug wires, coil or distributor? Maybe alternator or regulator but those are farther from the intake. I just moved my 6AL box to the other side of the engine bay and needed the rubber isolators for mounting, while looking for a part number I came across a shielded wiring harness from the 6AL to the distributor. My original harness was not shielded but got me thinking if they have had RFI issues on those at some point.

I agree on the cost is higher then it looks like at first. Ive factored about $1500 bucks in parts, maybe a little more if you want to build stainless fuel lines with AN fittings. If you can not install yourself dont forget about the cost of labor if you need to pay a shop to install. A carb is cheap to purchase and easy to install but harder to dial in then EFI.
1968 Standard, 302 2v, 3 speed.
Work in progress...

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xr7g428
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Re: Carb or EFI ?

#14

Post by xr7g428 »

Tony Candela, who wrote the book EFI Conversions: How to Swap Your Carb for Electronic Fuel Injection is a good friend of mine. He did extensive research and worked closely with the folks at Holley and several other suppliers while working on the book. He continues to stay current on the topic. I have discussed the system several times with him and I just completed the installation of the Sniper on a '55 T-Bird and have been involved in three other installations so far. I am not an expert, but he is. The Y block Ford has a rear mounted distributor and I was advised to be sure to keep the ignition wiring and the Sniper harness out of each others way. During the installation, before it was all tied down, we did have an issue where we lost the learned memory and had to start over. The explanation was that at some point we probably had an RFI issue that corrupted the EPROM memory. I don't know if that was true or not but once we did get everything neatened up, it has worked perfectly ever since.

https://www.amazon.com/EFI-Conversions- ... B00IWGQ8PA

I helped him with his first book: Automotive Wiring and Electrical Systems If you really want to better understand automotive electrical systems I recommend the book very highly (#14 best seller in the Automotive Repair category on Amazon Kindle) It is written in a very down to earth style and he offers many great examples designed for the non technical DIY car guy. If you do want to add EFI, and you haven't done much electrical it would be a great starting place.

https://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Wirin ... H3KN00HEC9
Bill Basore, Editor / Publisher
Legendary Cougar Magazine
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whitelightning777
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Re: Carb or EFI ?

#15

Post by whitelightning777 »

whitelightning777 wrote:
02 Feb 2020, 13:33
MSD makes a reasonably priced fuel injection system. Together with their ignition system, it's worth looking into.

I'm mulling over doing this switch myself. It would certainly cut down on warm up times and possibly allow me to run regular gas and get better mileage.

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9F91H581221
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Re: Carb or EFI ?

#16

Post by 9F91H581221 »

Another aspect of swapping to EFI is the ignition timing curve can be controlled by the EFI computer. It is not self tuning like the A/F ratio. But can be easily adjusted by the touch of buttons versus the weights and springs and vacuum diaphragm of a traditional distributor. On my MSD EFI I have not used the timing function as my distributor has already been set-up with a performance timing curve.

wawazat
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Re: Carb or EFI ?

#17

Post by wawazat »

Another FiTech user here. Sniper wasn’t available when I did my install June 2017. MSD system was about the same price as FiTech then but required a separate ECU install and their interface was monochrome. I also bought a TanksInc tank and fuel pump and ran a new fuel line. I had some self inflicted issues and had some EMI/RFI issues as well as a fuel pump failure of the GPA-4 pump that Summit advised was correct but FiTech PWM pump control conflicted with. Summit owned up to the issue and gave me full warranty replacement when I bought a FiTech pump. Glad I had the top mount pump for that swap as it was easy-peasy. I haven’t converted to timing control yet though plan to try it this summer.
1969 Cougar convertible restomod

whitelightning777
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Re: Carb or EFI ?

#18

Post by whitelightning777 »

Edelbrock also makes an EFI unit that only requires a return line. It retains the stock fuel pump which fills up a sump with a high pressure pump that feeds the injectors.

It reminds me of the fuel systems on tractor trailers that had a low pressure lift pump and then a high pressure diesel injection pump.

It's more expensive then the MSD unit and requires that you remove the intake manifold.

Of course, MSD highly recommends a return line but strictly speaking doesn't require one. Not using one might shorten the life of the fuel pump and the pump can be installed inside or outside of the tank.

According to their ads, only 8 wires are required to get it to work.

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