Engine Heads Question

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Re: Engine Heads Question

#11

Post by ******** »

I ran the 351 70 D0OE heads on my 1968 289 coupe in high school. Ford offered a special bolt which they called anti-brinelling.
The rockers would be correct on small block but a 289 HIPO and a Boss 302. The pushrod guides are with cast as slots as part of the pushrod hole though the head on 289 HIPOs, as they have mechanical tappets. No need for alarm on the rockers. They are rail rockers for non-adjustable valve trains. The 351 Windsor heads have a 1/2" head bolt hole, the 289 was 7/16" if memory serves me correctly. This is why they required the "special bolts".

-Keith
Last edited by ******** on 05 Oct 2019, 18:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Engine Heads Question

#12

Post by BossElim69 »

67427GT500 wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 21:45
I ran the 351 70 D0OE heads on my 1968 289 coupe in high school. Ford offered a special bolt which the called anti-brinelling.
The rockers would be correct on small block but a 289 HIPO and a Boss 302. The pushrod guides are with cast as slots as part of the pushrod hole though the head on 289 HIPOs, as they have mechanical tappets. No need for alarm on the rockers. They are rail rockers for non-adjustable valve trains. The 351 Windsor heads have a 1/2" head bolt hole, the 289 was 7/16" if memory serves me correctly. This is why they required the "special bolts".

-Keith
Boss 302 didn't have roller tip rocker arms.
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Re: Engine Heads Question

#13

Post by ******** »

BossElim69 wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 04:13
67427GT500 wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 21:45
I ran the 351 70 D0OE heads on my 1968 289 coupe in high school. Ford offered a special bolt which the called anti-brinelling.
The rockers would be correct on small block but a 289 HIPO and a Boss 302. The pushrod guides are with cast as slots as part of the pushrod hole though the head on 289 HIPOs, as they have mechanical tappets. No need for alarm on the rockers. They are rail rockers for non-adjustable valve trains. The 351 Windsor heads have a 1/2" head bolt hole, the 289 was 7/16" if memory serves me correctly. This is why they required the "special bolts".

-Keith
Boss 302 didn't have roller tip rocker arms.
Your Boss isn't a Windsor, it's in the Cleveland family. I also said RAIL, not roller. The OP's post was clearly on a 221-302 Windsor small block. Your Boss is also a mechanical valve train which has guide plates to control push-rod location, as should the OP's roller rockers.
-Keith
Last edited by ******** on 23 Sep 2019, 11:35, edited 1 time in total.

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70b302cat
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Re: Engine Heads Question

#14

Post by 70b302cat »

67427GT500 wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 10:24
BossElim69 wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 04:13
67427GT500 wrote:
22 Sep 2019, 21:45
I ran the 351 70 D0OE heads on my 1968 289 coupe in high school. Ford offered a special bolt which the called anti-brinelling.
The rockers would be correct on small block but a 289 HIPO and a Boss 302. The pushrod guides are with cast as slots as part of the pushrod hole though the head on 289 HIPOs, as they have mechanical tappets. No need for alarm on the rockers. They are rail rockers for non-adjustable valve trains. The 351 Windsor heads have a 1/2" head bolt hole, the 289 was 7/16" if memory serves me correctly. This is why they required the "special bolts".

-Keith
Boss 302 didn't have roller tip rocker arms.
Your Boss isn't a Windsor, it's in the Cleveland family. I also said RAIL, not roller. The OP's post was clearly on a 221-302 Windsor small block. Your Boss is also a mechanical valve train which has guide plates to control push-rod location..
-Keith
My understanding is that the BOSS 302 block is a member of the Windsor family with heads derived from the 335 family (Cleveland/Modified).

You can take a "normal" 302 Windsor short block and bolt all of the "other" parts from a BOSS 302 onto it with minimal issues. You can not take a "Cleveland" short block and bolt the "other" parts from a BOSS 302 onto it without many modifications.

"other" refers to heads, intake and exhaust manifolds and other components that are different between normal definitions of "short" and "long" blocks.
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Re: Engine Heads Question

#15

Post by xr7g428 »

Interestingly enough the Boss 302 came out before the Cleveland 351. You could say the Cleveland was developed to use the Boss 302 heads. (Not exactly true but I think my point is in there some where).
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Re: Engine Heads Question

#16

Post by CougarJoe22 »

Here are some more pics of the engine as is. I'm trying to decide if I should rebuild this or go with a turn key crate engine. I have no idea what HP this is putting out as is but would like 300 to 350hp. This engine runs great but it leaks oil pretty bad and smokes a bit on startup. I think it runs really rich. I'm sure headers would help quite a bit. What do you guys think?





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Re: Engine Heads Question

#17

Post by Steve68Cougar »

It looks like a 289/302 by the width of the intake manifold. No way of telling displacement without measuring the stroke. It looks like a pretty standard 600cfm vacuum secondary Holley. I have Hedman headers on mine and have been happy with them. Some people don't like long tube headers because they typically call for a power steering relocation bracket and the power steering hoses get awfully close to them. If you haven't checked the float levels on the carburetor you might consider doing that. I'm sure there are lots of videos out there if you're not familiar with the process. I doubt you're at the 300hp level unless it's been stroked to a larger displacement and has a decent cam in it. A new crate engine with aftermarket aluminum heads would definitely get you to the hp level you're wanting.

As someone mentioned, a Boss 302 is essentially a Windsor block with Cleveland heads. I know of people that did a "Clevor" version of a 302 back in the '70's and '80's before they made good aftermarket heads for the Windsors. The Cleveland heads essentially bolt onto the Windsor block, but require a bit of rework on the water passages and a few other things. There are some articles out there that explain what all it takes. At this point it's way easier to just get some aftermarket heads and be done with it.
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Re: Engine Heads Question

#18

Post by ******** »

No, but we can ascertain by the intake that it's not a 351 Windsor because of width. Everything interchanges on the 289-302 but the crank. The stroke on the 302 is about 1/16 longer.
The common swap was the early 351W heads in the late 70's early 80's. It was popular enough that Ford offered the special head bolts through their parts division. The Cleveland head swap was more difficult as it required coolant passage changes. The Boss 302 parts were bolt-on.

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Re: Engine Heads Question

#19

Post by Royce »

Actually the head bolts recommended by Ford For installing the 351W heads on 289 / 302 engines was the factory set of Boss 302 bolts.
67427GT500 wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 18:57
No, but we can ascertain by the intake that it's not a 351 Windsor because of width. Everything interchanges on the 289-302 but the crank. The stroke on the 302 is about 1/16 longer.
The common swap was the early 351W heads in the late 70's early 80's. It was popular enough that Ford offered the special head bolts through their parts division. The Cleveland head swap was more difficult as it required coolant passage changes. The Boss 302 parts were bolt-on.
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Re: Engine Heads Question

#20

Post by Smilodon »

Depending on the year of those heads, they could be really good for your little Windsor. The '69 (C9) or '70 (D0) heads are especially desirable.

If getting your timing spot on, and then tuning the carb properly doesn't fix your engine's boorish tendencies, I would do a compression check. That will reveal problems with ring seal, or valve trouble.

Flat tappet engines have problems with modern oil. Increasing valve lift and spring rates to raise performance aggravates the trouble even more. You can use ZDDP additives or buy oil formulated just for these older motors, but for a car that is driven a lot, if your engine is really worn, you might consider finding a newer 5.0 roller-cam motor and having it gone through. You might find one for as little as $300 if you're lucky. All of your existing engine's stuff should bolt right up, creating minimal fuss. If your existing heads aren't mid 70s/early 80s garbage, I'd probably use them! Just make sure that you put in new valve seals, and have them checked by a pro to ensure that they'll last.

If that's a Weiand Stealth intake, it's a great choice for your engine, too.
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