roller cam engine swap questions

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woodsnake
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roller cam engine swap questions

#1

Post by woodsnake » 26 Jun 2019, 19:39

So, I have been very, very unproductive with my Cougars for the last almost 7 years.
I built an engine for my 68 back in 2006 or so, Edelbrock heads, performer RPM heads, and cam. Sadly I lost not one, but two cams learning all about valve train geometry. Now the cheap gauge shows ZERO oil pressure, when it comes up to temp. ) I have an oil pressure gauge coming to verify the no oil pressure condition.)
So my question is this- Until I can pull the flat tappet cam motor out of the car, I have a couple of lines on 89+ roller engines. One option is a short block, with GT40 heads that have been home ported. It comes with comp cams 1.7 roller rockers.
The other option is an 89 Mercury Marquis 5.0, with only 85K miles showing on the odometer. I can get that one complete, for about 350 bucks at the U-pull it yard.

While my goal at the moment is only to throw in another running engine, so I can drive the car, the roller cam option opens a lot of doors.
How much performance cam can you get away with and still use the stock roller lifters?

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BossElim69
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Re: roller cam engine swap questions

#2

Post by BossElim69 » 27 Jun 2019, 04:05

The stock roller lifter will handle any cam you would want to install and use on the street.
I would stay away from the motor that has been hand ported. Unless you know the guy that did it and have confidence he used a flow bench and matched each port. If you must buy that motor. I would install a set of aftermarket cyl heads.
Brian Carpenter, President CATS classic Cougar club
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woodsnake
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Re: roller cam engine swap questions

#3

Post by woodsnake » 27 Jun 2019, 15:45

The one with the ported heads, for me is basically the short block. I would sell the GT 40 heads. It does come with comp cams 1.7 roller rockers as well.But, for the 200 for the motor that is in parts, or another engine for 350.00, either 5.0 or 5.8 from the same U-pull it yard, my dilemma only gets worse! By the time I replace missing hardware, get a gasket set, I am easily back into the other complete motor price. The only difference is the labor to pull the motor at the yard.
There is another parts place with a similar sales model, I am going to check them out this weekend. Ultimately, I will fix the engine that's in the car, but for something to drive in the meantime, these are just some thoughts....

woodsnake
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Re: roller cam engine swap questions

#4

Post by woodsnake » 05 Aug 2019, 18:35

So, I pulled the trigger, and found a guy parting out a 91 Cougar XR7 with a 5.0 HO in it, with only 113xxx miles.
I paid four hundred, and got not only the engine, but all the accessory stuff with it. Complete serpentine belt set up, fuel injection, and harness, intact.
So I have two primary questions.
1. If I wanted to keep the fuel injection, is there a stand alone computer product that would serve as the "car" side?
I know I would have to plumb in a higher pressure fuel pump and fuel return line.
Also, I would have to get a different radiator, as the inlet and out let are on opposite sides. ( I think? Now I will have to go look.)
I understand the EFI has a lot of benefits over a carbureted engine, but this is going in my 68, and I prefer the old school look.
I already have a duraspark distributor, and MSD 6AL box, so the ignition is covered.

If I stick to the plan, I know I will need a new timing cover, and have to add a fuel pump eccentric to the cam. I will have to swap the serpentine pulley over to a V belt pulley. The car is all manual, so I only have to worry about the alternator and fan set up.
Of course I am on a strict budget, and already have lots of carburetors and parts for the early 289/302 engines.
The car has a 3.50 gear and a T5, I think it will feel nice and peppy with the stock motor and the stick shift.

The engine coming out, has the Edelbrock performer top end, air gap dual quad set up, and .496/.520 lift cam to go with the Edelbrock heads. It runs great, but has literally zero lbs of oil pressure at idle. Maybe I can get buy with a new oil pump, but probably will need new bearings and the oil pump.


I have decided that as this is only going to be a temporary engine, I will stick to the carb idea for now. I don't have the extra budget for FI Tech or similar upgrades. I will keep all the stock injectors and stuff, for a possible refit down the road.

I also posted this on MC.net- no need to reply twice, thanks! I Know not everyone is on both pages, that is why I posted this twice.

Jester1023
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Re: roller cam engine swap questions

#5

Post by Jester1023 » 06 Aug 2019, 20:29

Yeah, swap out the timing cover, oil pan and pick-up...a new pick-up. The one in your current engine may be loaded with the junk causing 0 psi. You may need to get the threaded inserts for the smog ports at the back of the heads. Run a 600 cfm or less carb on a good dual plane intake. Swap the dizzy gear from the 5.0 HO to your duraspark unit, so it matches the roller cam.

Don’t waist your money on an fitech, I don’t know anybody in my giant circle of gearheads that enjoys the results. As far as MAP sensor driven fuelie setups, they seem to be 50/50 on results, which is typical of GM systems. Ford went to mass air in ‘89 and I think it’s superior to MAP. Pro M is king for mass air.

Stock lifters can handle any aftermarket cam. I’d only go that route if your running your aluminum heads, but I think you ought to just run it stock...temporarily.

Jester1023
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Re: roller cam engine swap questions

#6

Post by Jester1023 » 06 Aug 2019, 20:31

Don’t forget...the 5.0 HO uses the 351 firing order.

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mfc133
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Location: Perkasie, PA

Re: roller cam engine swap questions

#7

Post by mfc133 » 07 Aug 2019, 07:04

If you decide to go with a TBI-style EFI take a look at the holley sniper. More costly than the fitech but I've had great luck with mine so far:
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-Mike

1968 Cougar Standard, 302 4V, auto, Madras Blue

woodsnake
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Joined: 27 Dec 2011, 12:25

Re: roller cam engine swap questions

#8

Post by woodsnake » 13 Aug 2019, 19:16

Just an update, but no pictures yet- I have the oil pan, timing cover, an F4B intake, and a 650 Holley with mechanical secondaries to go with the stick shift.
I also had to buy a 5.0 fly wheel and clutch. I got a duraspark distributor with a steel gear on ebay coming also.... I just remembered, that I need a water pump too...
Is there any difference between a 5.0 and a 5.8 timing gear set?? I've seen several listed that say they fit both applications.

It's adding up to more than I wanted to pay, but I will have a good spare engine also on a stand, should the need arise.
I will try and post some pictures after I get some more progress made...It's good to be making some progress again!!

Bluestuff
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Re: roller cam engine swap questions

#9

Post by Bluestuff » 14 Aug 2019, 16:13

The timeing gear set is interchangible, BUT check your using the correct fuel pump drive, AND, possibly advance the crank sprocket 4d some later cams had a little retard built in for emissions etc.
AND use a double row, “tru rollar” chain set.
All others tend to stretch and “jump” a tooth ?

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