Trouble matching original paint

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69428SCJ
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Trouble matching original paint

#1

Post by 69428SCJ » 14 Dec 2017, 23:26

Alright friends, here's a mystery I'm trying to solve. I had some paint code 9 Yellow mixed up by my restorer, and concurrently had a local paint supplier mix up a pint also. Both different mixtures turned out way too green. As I understand it, with the new pigments in existence, using the original formula will continue to produce this greenish hue. We have a little bit of original paint on the underside of the decklid and and the taillight panel for reference. Has anyone else experienced this issue? What was the solution? My restorer is bleeding me funds death by a thousand paper cuts style trying to find the correct mixture, and I'd like to stem the money hemorrhaging!

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BossElim69
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#2

Post by BossElim69 » 15 Dec 2017, 06:39

A good restorer, body shop or paint supply place can tint and test samples of the paint until it matches. Once a formula is figured out that matches. Then mix up the batch of paint needed. No need to spend lots of $$$ for this process.
Brian Carpenter, President CATS classic Cougar club
67 Cougar road course racer
67 Cougar project car
67 Cougar GT
68 XR7-G trailer queen restoration.
68 Restomod
69 Boss 302 Eliminator
69 XR7 390 survivor
69 XR7 428CJ 4spd
70 Boss 302 Mustang
1993 Harley Davidson
2004 F250 diesel
2004 Jeep Overland 4.7L H.O.
78 Ford F 150 Ranger
08 Cobalt SS

ClawIt
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#3

Post by ClawIt » 15 Dec 2017, 07:51

I think this problem is becoming more widespread. I've seen two high dollar restored, from different restorers, 69 Shelbys that are supposed to be Grabber Orange (Marti). They don't match each other and when a survivor was parked next to them the three don't match. Also a 68 GT500 and a 68 Cyclone both code I, lime gold, medium green metallic, slime gold whatever its called with big buck restorations, they don't match each other. Last summer a 68 Cougar bought from storage in Seattle which has its original code I paint in very good shape was next to these two at a car show, the three didn't match. I've heard the reason is base/clear or single stage urethane versus the original enamel or formulas because of the VOC regs. My opinion is the new paints turn out darker then the enamel.

69428SCJ
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#4

Post by 69428SCJ » 15 Dec 2017, 08:11

BossElim69 wrote:
15 Dec 2017, 06:39
A good restorer, body shop or paint supply place can tint and test samples of the paint until it matches. Once a formula is figured out that matches. Then mix up the batch of paint needed. No need to spend lots of $$$ for this process.
The shop is one of exceptionally we repute, so it's not as though they don't know what they're doing. The issue is my restorer charges me for everything. Right now they've charged me about 4.5 hours plus supplies attempting to match the color and this thread is an attempt to find the mix that will stop the shop from continuing to figure out (i.e. charge me) the correct formula by presenting them the one that will match.
ClawIt wrote:
15 Dec 2017, 07:51
I think this problem is becoming more widespread. I've seen two high dollar restored, from different restorers, 69 Shelbys that are supposed to be Grabber Orange (Marti). They don't match each other and when a survivor was parked next to them the three don't match. Also a 68 GT500 and a 68 Cyclone both code I, lime gold, medium green metallic, slime gold whatever its called with big buck restorations, they don't match each other. Last summer a 68 Cougar bought from storage in Seattle which has its original code I paint in very good shape was next to these two at a car show, the three didn't match. I've heard the reason is base/clear or single stage urethane versus the original enamel or formulas because of the VOC regs. My opinion is the new paints turn out darker then the enamel.
My restorer even suggested as much, that the hues now, despite being the exact formula, will be different due to how paints/pigments are manufactured. I have chosen to use a single stage just as the factory used, to lessen the troubles with matching, using base/clear, and for period correctness. The absolute last thing I want happening is we spray the car, park it next to an original paint and it not match. That would ruin the entire restoration for me! :evil:

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BossElim69
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#5

Post by BossElim69 » 15 Dec 2017, 09:17

I think you would be hard pressed to park a new restored freshly painted car next to one that is 50 yrs old and expect the paint to match perfectly to the original factory color (depending on the color). With that said I think you can get pretty darn close. But, you need a person or shop that knows what direction to go in tinting the formula to match the original color. You're not going to find the magic formula (answer) here. It will take a person that knows what direction to go and take the greenish hue out of the new formula your working with. After 4.5 hours he should have a color sample tinted pretty darn close to the original. If not, they need to seek out some help in tinting the new formula. I does take a person with a special eye for color to be good at it.
Brian Carpenter, President CATS classic Cougar club
67 Cougar road course racer
67 Cougar project car
67 Cougar GT
68 XR7-G trailer queen restoration.
68 Restomod
69 Boss 302 Eliminator
69 XR7 390 survivor
69 XR7 428CJ 4spd
70 Boss 302 Mustang
1993 Harley Davidson
2004 F250 diesel
2004 Jeep Overland 4.7L H.O.
78 Ford F 150 Ranger
08 Cobalt SS

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CougaDan70
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#6

Post by CougaDan70 » 15 Dec 2017, 19:09

Oranges and yellows were made back then with metallic pigments containing lead and/or chromium that have mostly disapeared today, since being toxic. Replacement pignents are mostly organic and/or made with different metals and hence do not match with the originals. In addition, the organic pigments can not be loaded as heavily as before in the paint which mean that the volume of pigmrent in the dry paint is lower than before hence modifying the way that light (color) is reflected. For this reason I tend to beleive that close matches (close = not perfect) is probably the best we can expect.
1970 Vert 351W / FMX with PB & PS, that's all there is but man am I happy!
Dan, Montreal Qc.

69428SCJ
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#7

Post by 69428SCJ » 15 Dec 2017, 19:39

BossElim69 wrote:
15 Dec 2017, 09:17
I think you would be hard pressed to park a new restored freshly painted car next to one that is 50 yrs old and expect the paint to match perfectly to the original factory color (depending on the color). With that said I think you can get pretty darn close. But, you need a person or shop that knows what direction to go in tinting the formula to match the original color. You're not going to find the magic formula (answer) here. It will take a person that knows what direction to go and take the greenish hue out of the new formula your working with. After 4.5 hours he should have a color sample tinted pretty darn close to the original. If not, they need to seek out some help in tinting the new formula. I does take a person with a special eye for color to be good at it.
You're right about the paint fading. My taillight panel has very well protected original paint, but is a different shade than the original paint on the underside of the decklid due to assumed fading. Maybe I should've said compare to another restored car instead of an original. I assumed with the amount of knowledge on this board someone would've developed a formula that is pretty spot on, hence why I posed the question in the first place.

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Leroy R
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#8

Post by Leroy R » 16 Dec 2017, 07:27

I thought most paint places these days had computerized paint matching equipment that could match paint color to a sample. They just hold the sample under the computers camera and it calculates the formula needed to match the sample color.

If the computer can't give an exact match then it's likely because of what was said above. The pigments are just no longer available to create the desired color exactly.

69428SCJ
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#9

Post by 69428SCJ » 16 Dec 2017, 12:39

I'm not sure if they have the camera or not. I'd imagine they don't if we're playing the match game. Hopefully the next time I'm able to get to the shop here in a couple weeks we'll be able to determine the right mixture.

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Leroy R
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Re: Trouble matching original paint

#10

Post by Leroy R » 16 Dec 2017, 14:02

Where are you located? Do you have original paint on a small part that you could easily remove and take somewhere else to get it color matched?

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