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Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 10:26
by jsv
I have been reading this thread with great interest. As a physician and surgeon, we are daily faced with issues that relate to Ethics. Ethics might be summarized as having 4 components: 1. Beneficence, 2. Respect for Autonomy, 3. Paternalism, and 4. Nonmaleficence. AKA: Do what is right for the people or persons you are assisting, respect their ability to make their own decisions if fully informed, do not presume to tell someone what to do, and do no harm.
How each individual in a position of power, whether that person is a registrar or a physician, exercises these principles will create a framework for how their actions may be viewed.
In this case, I believe the dilemma focuses on what is right for the Robies vs. Community as a whole. And given the vulnerable position that the Robies were in, it sounds like they were fully informed and the folks involved exercised respect for their autonomy, paid them a very reasonable price, and did no harm.
If the Community wishes, it can consider setting parameters that include checking with registrars regularly and providing notification of interested persons ready to buy any car. But I do not think that a volunteer Cougar registrar needs to publicize every car for sale they are aware of to everyone.

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 10:52
by xr7g428
What are the communities expectations of the Registrars? And oath of abstinance? I think we should add something to the registry pages to the effect of "If you are interested in buying a (GT-E, XR7-G, Eliminator< etc) please notify the registrar as they are frequently contacted by sellers interested in private transactions."

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 10:54
by mo2872
jsv wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 10:26
I have been reading this thread with great interest. As a physician and surgeon, we are daily faced with issues that relate to Ethics. Ethics might be summarized as having 4 components: 1. Beneficence, 2. Respect for Autonomy, 3. Paternalism, and 4. Nonmaleficence. AKA: Do what is right for the people or persons you are assisting, respect their ability to make their own decisions if fully informed, do not presume to tell someone what to do, and do no harm.
How each individual in a position of power, whether that person is a registrar or a physician, exercises these principles will create a framework for how their actions may be viewed.
In this case, I believe the dilemma focuses on what is right for the Robies vs. Community as a whole. And given the vulnerable position that the Robies were in, it sounds like they were fully informed and the folks involved exercised respect for their autonomy, paid them a very reasonable price, and did no harm.
If the Community wishes, it can consider setting parameters that include checking with registrars regularly and providing notification of interested persons ready to buy any car. But I do not think that a volunteer Cougar registrar needs to publicize every car for sale they are aware of to everyone.
Perfect.....but you forgot the.....
MIC DROP 3.gif

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 11:07
by Royce
As the XR7-G Registrar I keep two lists.
1. People who have contacted the Registrar who want an XR7-G.
2. People who have an XR7-G for sale.

The Registry is private, not public. I receive no support from the CCOA financially, nor does Jim at the GT-E Registry, or any of the other registrars. I paid for the contract with Marti and Ford Motor Company out of my own pocket, as did Jim for the GT-E data. I am not allowed to publish or sell statistics from said database under the terms of my contract.

Occasionally I have purchased XR7-G's from all over the country. Typically I make them saleable and move them on to a owner who will continue to improve the car. Occasionally that makes a tiny profit, but normally it does not. I am more interested in improving the brand than anything else, and I think that concept is shared with all the other registrars. Maybe someday the perfect XR7-G for me will come my way. If it does I won't hesitate to buy it to keep until my estate sale.

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 11:31
by TomL
Registrar or not, anyone has the right to purchase a car at any moment in time. No disclosure to the world is required.

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 13:04
by Blitz
TomL wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 11:31
Registrar or not, anyone has the right to purchase a car at any moment in time. No disclosure to the world is required.
That right there is probably the best, simplest way to put it. Any advantage Jim (or other registrars) enjoy by being in their position is well-earned, and they're allowed to buy a car if they want to. The whole reason these guys are registrars is that they're passionate about these cars, so you'd think they might want to buy one once in a while. :think: Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

ANYWAY, can we close the great ethics debate and get back to the car? Jim, I hope you won't be too shy in posting progress updates as a result of the shenanigans here. I'll be interested to see how you go about cleaning it up, and how you'll tread the line of preservation vs. restoration. I imagine there will be some tough choices involved.

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 17:10
by badcatt
Blitz wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 13:04
TomL wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 11:31
Registrar or not, anyone has the right to purchase a car at any moment in time. No disclosure to the world is required.
That right there is probably the best, simplest way to put it. Any advantage Jim (or other registrars) enjoy by being in their position is well-earned, and they're allowed to buy a car if they want to. The whole reason these guys are registrars is that they're passionate about these cars, so you'd think they might want to buy one once in a while. :think: Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

ANYWAY, can we close the great ethics debate and get back to the car? Jim, I hope you won't be too shy in posting progress updates as a result of the shenanigans here. I'll be interested to see how you go about cleaning it up, and how you'll tread the line of preservation vs. restoration. I imagine there will be some tough choices involved.
And Jim, If you would like some help getting this one cleaned up I may be able to help. Just a cougar lover helping another one.

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 18:16
by Mike_B_SVT
badcatt wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:10
And Jim, If you would like some help getting this one cleaned up I may be able to help. Just a cougar lover helping another one.
I bet there are about a dozen of us in the region who would love to see this one in person.

Hmm... Cascade Cougar Club "Welcome Home" party and BBQ? >.>

Either that or we probably have to wait until PROWL to see it, LOL!

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 05:45
by Cougar1
Neal and Mike -- First Neal, thanks for the volunteer help cleaning it up -- I might take you up on that and I appreciate the offer. Mike, I told Clive down at WCCC that I'd consider bringing it depending upon how far I get with it by then.

Re: This is a Barn Find to beat all Barn Finds!

Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 19:52
by johnboy
This should be the LAST "car flipper" mention.
Now, back to this very special thread and the real story meant to be posted here
Be advised no Cougars were harmed during filming.