1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

Make your Cougar run faster, handle better, and jump higher... okay maybe not jump higher. If you feel the need for speed, this is the place.
7TXR7
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#11

Post by 7TXR7 » 10 Jun 2018, 12:55

canted 393 wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 06:26
Try Brent http://www.lykinsmotorsports.com/
He can do custom carbs [ I have 3 from him] and cams. A 351c is a different animal and a custom cam shaft will make a big difference.
intake manifold, look at an edelbrock rpm airgap
headers, www.fordpowertrain.com,very high quality but spendy.
These are just some suggestions to show you whats out there, good luck. Dan
I can vouch for Brent at Lykin motorsports, its where I got my cam and Quickfuel carb from.
I also run an Eddy RPM airgap and its a very good intake. My heads are 4V so a bit different, get rid of the stock valves and put in a set of decent single groove valves and all the machining to go with it as was said previously.
As for gears with a cleveland likes gears, I run 3:50 now and am going to 3:89 as it still seems not as snappy as I'd like. You most likely have a 9" rear with 3:00 or 2:73 gears in it.
As said earlier only take out as much as needed to clean the cylinders up. I'm not familliar with what the 2V heads have as far as open chamber or closed but that will determine pistons to get the right compression ratio you want, I have 4V closed chamber run forged flats which is about 10.5:1 and run 94 octane Chevron with no issues at all.
Its not going to be a cheap build but worth it when done right.

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yearby
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#12

Post by yearby » 09 Dec 2018, 08:05

When trying to keep the Cleveland cool, there is a few issues that should be addressed.

1. All the aftermarket mechanical water pumps I have seen have excessive impeller clearance, this causes the coolant to by pass the impeller and slows down flow. Get yourself a copy of an original workshop manual, in it you will find the correct clearance specifications to what the pump should be. Aftermarket pumps have as much as twice the Ford recommended clearance between the impeller and the housing.
( I prefer a cast iron pump over an aluminium type because they don't suffer corrosion so much if you miss a coolant flush, but that's my choice)

2. It is possible to get water pumps for the Cleveland with the Boss 302 style impeller to improve flow, maybe an option.

3. When repairing my last Cleveland pump I noticed that the holes between the pump and the block don't line up correctly and the timing chain cover plate partly covers the holes. So I match ported the water pump, timing cover and the block to improve flow. As yet have not driven my cougar to find out if it works, but makes sense to me.

I am not so keen on the electric fan idea, unless you have an engine that runs nice and cool all the time. In my experience in hot weather they are always on and the battery is always flat. So inevitably you end up sitting on the side of the road with a car that is over heating and has a flat battery.
I would second Don Rush on his 3 core 24" wide rad with clutch fan idea. I have not tried his restrictor plate idea, so can not comment it.
The fan clutch with the larger fan and 24' radiator looks more original anyway and possibly better for resale of you vehicle.

Peter :)

The Jugulator
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#13

Post by The Jugulator » 02 Jan 2019, 19:33

So, It's been more than a year since I've gotten my cougar and I've had a lot of set backs and the engine rebuild was sadly one of those. Now that I have some time and am able to get back into it, I'd like to get back on track, and since I'm in the tear down stage on the engine I figure I may as well start my research.

1970 Cougar, 351 Cleveland 2V, FMX Transmission and 8" with 3.00 Gears I believe. It's going to be a daily driver, not long distance if I can help it but I'd like to be able to daily drive it around town. Everything is stock, pistons, connecting rods, cam and crank, carb and intake, and heads. I'm looking to replace the cam, and I don't know too much, but after some research I think I have a general ballpark.
A solid roller cam, .500 lift, 110-114 lobe seperation, Overlap I know should be between 10 and 55 but I don't know an exact range, and as for duration I was told 268 was moderate, but I have no experience with cams so to me it's just theory and all the relation between each different aspect is not something I am savvy with.

I'm gonna keep the 2V heads, get it cleaned up and probably get a 3 angle valve job, and I read that the stock connecting rods can handle somewhere in the 300 hp range, and I don't plan to go over at most 400, most likely around 350, but I'd like to get new rods since they are 50 years old, so a recommendation on that would be appreciated. Pistons as well, since I planned to stay stock but I'm open to changing since I may as well replace most of the internals. As for the intake I was recommended an edelbrock air gap, and for the carb I hadn't looked at which 4 barrel works best with the air gap. I have an FMX trans, and I don't plan on any work or upgrades on it, and I am 90% certain it has an 8" with 3.00 gears, and I have a set of 3.25 gears that were for my maverick but I no longer have that and if they fit in the cougar I may as well use them.

This is my first engine build, and I figure 350hp wasn't an unreachable figure, and I could do all the reading in the world but I'm sure everyone on here has more knowledge than any book could give me, so any advice is appreciated, as well as explanations since it's new ground for me. Any products, number ranges for things or tips would be great, Thanks for any help.

edit: Also time/money aren't a major concern, I'll be getting a new job soon and I don't have too many expenses so I can put money into it and I can save up if need be. Obviously I'd like to to be as cheap as I can but I want the car to be upgraded and have it last so I know not everything can be cheap and good quality, thanks.

CATHOUSE
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#14

Post by CATHOUSE » 02 Jan 2019, 21:44

Your Cougar would have left the factory with a 9" rear, so if you currently have an 8" than someone has replaced it. An easy way to tell the difference between an 8" and a 9" is to look at the nut holding the center section to the housing at the 6:00 position. If you can put a socket on that nut then it is an 8". On a 9" there is no way to get a socket on that nut.

Randy Goodling
CCOA #95

7TXR7
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#15

Post by 7TXR7 » 10 Jan 2019, 00:32

Yes what Randy said.
AS long as your rods arent damaged they will hold up to way more than 300, your HP range is well within your limits. The weekness of the rods are the nuts on the rod bolts, I think you can get nuts but I'd just get a new set of ARP rod bolts and have the machine shop put them in and re-shape the big hole. Also, for your HP range I'd say a set of Sealed Power/Speed Pro forged pistons for the size your machinest states. Spend your money on good machining, new valves, ARP hardware and quality bearings you'll have a more reliable build than spending on stuff you don't need. 350HP out of a Cleveland is pretty easy.
Last edited by 7TXR7 on 10 Jan 2019, 01:00, edited 1 time in total.

7TXR7
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#16

Post by 7TXR7 » 10 Jan 2019, 00:44

Also, a solid roller cam requires a bit of regular "tuning", meaning valve lash needs to be set somewhat frequently. If your dailey driving and not really racing it may not be the best for you. A hydraulic roller conversion set up is good IMO, one time (usually) valve lash set up and no need for special oils to prevent a cam lobe wipe out.

I've built several motors, but I don't have the test equipment nor the knowledge and skills to properly recommend a cam for you. Thats why I recommended a skilled Cleveland builder with experience; Brent LYKINS. He has a forum thats Clev specific with some good info http://www.the351cforum.com/

The Jugulator
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#17

Post by The Jugulator » 10 Jan 2019, 01:19

I've read a lot about ARP rods for both connecting rods and other parts, so that'll definitely be an upgrade. For sure new bearings, valve guides and valves, new arp hardware, and thanks for the piston recommendation, I'll be going to the machine shop this weekend with parts to see what needs to be done.

I also have a topic on 351cforum with basically the same post, however I did learn that I should be going for a hydraulic roller cam, and I've talked to Brent over email and on the forum so I'll be in contact with him. Thanks for the advice.

Edit: I forgot to ask if anyone had a recommendation on a torque converter or even just a rpm range for one, as well as if anyone has tried the Edelbrock AVS2 650cfm electric choke. I plan on putting that on the Air Gap, and was wondering if anyone had any firsthand experience with it.

rare70cat
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#18

Post by rare70cat » 13 Jan 2019, 09:35

IMHO. The edelbrock carb looks like a carter which was a mopar product. Holley always looks better and performs as well IF not better.

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badcatt
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#19

Post by badcatt » 13 Jan 2019, 10:15

rare70cat wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 09:35
IMHO. The edelbrock carb looks like a carter which was a mopar product. Holley always looks better and performs as well IF not better.
It is the same as a Carter. Did you know Lincoln's had Carters at one time?
Neal Jacobson.
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R.B.Phillips
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Re: 1970 Cougar 351C Rebuild

#20

Post by R.B.Phillips » 13 Jan 2019, 11:34

As did GM products and mid-century Willys. Carter was a St.Louis company that had no connection to any manufacturer other than who was sending them business.

Keep it simple and cheap, I say. I would even avoid converting to hydraulic roller if it was mine!

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