After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in pricing..

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swoop1156
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After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in pricing..

#1

Post by swoop1156 » 23 Sep 2018, 18:39

All,

Thanks for allowing me to post here. I hope that this post isn't in the wrong spot or incorrect in nature to the nature of the forum. I'm very experienced in the ways of forums, but I believe this is my first post here. (Edit: Posted here in 2014...thanks for the help back then, too! I now have lots more information about the car.)

As a long story short type deal, my Dad and I bought what we thought was a 1969 Cougar Eliminator way back sometime between the years of '96, '98, something around there. I know that we had it when I was in High School and I drove it before then, back when my Dad still had his 600+hp '66 Charger. We'd go cruising together. Anyway, we got it way back then, in the infancy of the Internet. Didn't have much to go on back then, but Dad said it was a 428CJ paired to a C6 with a shift kit. Being a kid/teenager, all I knew is that it was incredibly fast in a straight line, and burying the go pedal at 30mph, it would shift into first, and according to my Dad's choice phrase, it'd "s**t-and-get", chirp into second and by the time you could let off after that, you're already at 70+.

Here are some pictures of the car back when we had it, including one with me that I picked to be one of my High School graduation pictures. These are the only five that I have of the car:

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I've been literally talking to Phil for years about this car, I've written Jalopnik staff and had an article posted by Jason Torchinsky himself asking the Internet for help. From that article, I was put in touch with some madmen genius's that found the owner of the car. Sadly, that guy sold it and didn't keep records of where it went. After that, I continued looking for the car. If you read the article, it'll give a little on how it all came about. Basically, I joined the military, Mom/Dad sold the car, end of story.

Anyway, somehow I found out who currently has the dang thing and he has agreed more or less to sell it to me, but we don't have a price set. We've only talked over Facebook messenger, he provided his phone number but hasn't answered my calls.

My question to you fine Cougar enthusiasts that know much more than I -- what would even be a good starting block at this point? I know what we originally paid for the car, I know what Mom and Dad sold it for and I even know what this guy bought it for, but he also part traded stuff too, so that's not really legitimate in figuring it out. The sentimental reasons are there, but I have a limited budget and you know - stuff like that. I don't want to let my emotions get the best of me and I pay $20k for a $9,000 car, right? I'd be willing to trade my immaculate '91 GT with 35k original miles for it, even knowing the Cougar needs some work.

Gotta show pictures of the Fox I'm willing to trade:

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Running the Cougar VIN and door tag, it comes out to a 351-2v car with an FMX. I can tell you that the car definitely had/has a 4bbl on it when we had it, and having a 302 Fox Body Mustang that has some work done to it, the Cougar would have destroyed that Mustang from a red light. I don't think a 351 would be that much faster than a Fox, but maybe... I know engine swaps are prevalent in older muscle cars and anything can happen, yet without being in person with the car being able to mechanically look and verify it is what it is at this time, I can give you no idea if it's legitimately numbers matching, or if it's a different engine, trans, etc. I find it interesting that it appeared to have factory hood pins according to what I remember and comparing that memory to pictures online of factory cars. I don't recall it having a clock on the passenger side. I have no updated pictures of the interior. The car was originally white, but this paint looked factory and perfect, never could tell it was repainted. The front air dam, rear wing, hood pins, wheel arch chrome - it all just looked so factory. Dad and I put the stripes on it, both side and hood.

When they sold it, Mom said it had 32,000 miles. This guy said he bought it and never drove it. I'd guess at most, 40,000.

It pains me to post these next pictures, as I had so many teenage evenings with Dad, washing, waxing, polishing and maintaining this thing, hopefully all my hard work all those years are under the dust and dirt and grime.

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Does anyone find it interesting that there's a Mustang sticker on there for the tire information?

Any help would be appreciated, even if it's to say stay away and forget about it, or that the Fox is a better car/investment/toy. Who knows. Thanks again in advance. Disclaimer, I do not yet have a Marti report, because I have no idea if the engine in the car is the engine that it came with from the factory. I'd rather know first, right? Or should I just get one regardless?

Thanks again, everyone!

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badcatt
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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#2

Post by badcatt » 23 Sep 2018, 18:57

The "H" in the VIN indicates it was originally a 351 2V
Neal Jacobson.
1970 XR-7 White "Ginger"
1970 XR-7 Convertible Blue
1971 XR-7 Bright Blue with Blue "Up Beat" interior
1970 Standard 428CJ Competition Yellow The New Money Pit.
See ya on the hiways,
The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter,
they are an entire banquet
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- Mark Twain -

swoop1156
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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#3

Post by swoop1156 » 23 Sep 2018, 19:01

badcatt wrote:
23 Sep 2018, 18:57
The "H" in the VIN indicates it was originally a 351 2V
Correct, according to the VIN and door tag, it is a 351-2v car with an FMX.

CATHOUSE
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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#4

Post by CATHOUSE » 23 Sep 2018, 20:23

If the door data plate shown is for the car you are thinking about buying it is a fairly base standard car, a factor that brings its value down. The bigger questions are what other factory options did the car have? And what condition is the car currently in? Those are bigger factors in its value today. This car probably has more sentimental value to you then monetary value to most anyone else. If the last group of photos is how the car currently looks then it is showing rust and body damage. Does it run and drive? If so, how well? We really do not have enough information to say much about the car's current value. Unless there is something special about the current drivetrain I would think that your 91 GT would have a much higher value than the Cougar.

Randy Goodling
CCOA #95

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Al Bundy
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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#5

Post by Al Bundy » 23 Sep 2018, 20:36

Can’t help you with the value of the Cougar, but I like your Mustang.
1974 Dodge Dart - daily driver
1963 Thunderbird Z code - raven black/red
1968 XR7 F code - diamond blue/blue
1968 XR7 J code - black/red
1968 J code - madras blue/aqua
1968 XR7 X code - lime frost/dark ivy gold
1968 GT-E XR7 W code prototype no. 500033 - cardinal red/black

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MercuryDon
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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#6

Post by MercuryDon » 24 Sep 2018, 01:33

With it being an H code(The least desirable) and signs of rust. (There is always more and usually in more critical places.) I would put a price on it between $6,000 and $8000 depending on the rust in the floors, cowl, trunk, and sub frames. Personally I'd keep the Mustang GT.
68 427 GTE-XR7 Dk Blue/Dk Blue(1 of 3 Color/trim) C6 3.50TL
68 390 4V XR7G Dk Blue/Dk Blue w/Sunroof C6 3.25TL
69 428SCJ 4spd XR7 Conv't.White/Aqua 12K miles(1 of 1 with 4.30DL)
69 428CJ 4Spd Cyclone CJ Maroon/Blk 29K miles 3.50TL
68 390 4V Cyclone GT. Madras/White C6 3.00 (Introductory Show unit)
69 390 4Spd XR7 Sunroof Med.Lime/Dark Ivy 3.00
68 390 4V Cyclone GT White/Red C6 3.25
04 Cobra Conv't.4.6 DOHC Supercharged Blk/Grey 3.50TL
70 390 Javelin SST Big Bad Grn/Blk 700R4 4.10 Dana 44
98 Dakota R/T 5.9 Std Cab Blue/Grey(1 of 32) 3.91SG
71 Thunderbird 429 w/suicide doors Copper/Drk.Brn 2.75
06 Dodge SRT10. 11k miles 488 cube Viper V10. 505hp. 6 spd. 4.10SG

swoop1156
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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#7

Post by swoop1156 » 24 Sep 2018, 05:05

CATHOUSE wrote:
23 Sep 2018, 20:23
If the door data plate shown is for the car you are thinking about buying it is a fairly base standard car, a factor that brings its value down. The bigger questions are what other factory options did the car have? And what condition is the car currently in? Those are bigger factors in its value today. This car probably has more sentimental value to you then monetary value to most anyone else. If the last group of photos is how the car currently looks then it is showing rust and body damage. Does it run and drive? If so, how well? We really do not have enough information to say much about the car's current value. Unless there is something special about the current drivetrain I would think that your 91 GT would have a much higher value than the Cougar.

Randy Goodling
CCOA #95
I'm pretty sure that the car doesn't have A/C, but other than that, I couldn't tell you. I am trying to get in touch with the gentleman that owns the car to get more information regarding the condition and everything surrounding the circumstance of what a person would ask when buying a vehicle of this age. I really appreciate your reply to my post, thank you.
Al Bundy wrote:
23 Sep 2018, 20:36
Can’t help you with the value of the Cougar, but I like your Mustang.
Thanks! I really like it too and it really is perfect. Maybe one day it'll be as desirable as these cars are to us!
MercuryDon wrote:
24 Sep 2018, 01:33
With it being an H code(The least desirable) and signs of rust. (There is always more and usually in more critical places.) I would put a price on it between $6,000 and $8000 depending on the rust in the floors, cowl, trunk, and sub frames. Personally I'd keep the Mustang GT.
Very true, the VIN doesn't lie. The H code is not the most sought after. Being a car that's been in Michigan, but has a Southern California DSO, it's definitely been in the state during winter months, but I'd assume not driven in bad weather. Who knows where it was stored. Thanks for the guess on pricing. I'm thinking the current owner is going to be a bit higher than that, and I am not sure I'd be willing to go much over $10k at this point. Memories of the car are wonderful, I don't really want to open a can of worms. Thanks for your reply, much appreciated!

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cj750
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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#8

Post by cj750 » 24 Sep 2018, 08:42

Cool car, although as you've discovered, its not an Eliminator. Besides the "H" in the VIN, a few other things give it away: The chrome fenderwell moldings, the spacing of the rear spoiler pedestals, and the low-back bucket seat. Value is very hard to pin down based on all the unknowns at this point. As mentioned, condition of the body plays a large role.Determining what engine is actually in it could potentially make a big difference as well. A legitimate 428 Cobra Jet engine and matching C6 are worth several thousand all by themselves, even if not original to the car.
That said, I'll nitpick MercuryDon's phrasing of the H-code being "the least desirable." That's one way to put it, but there's actually nothing undesirable about the 351W 2V that was installed in the '69-'70 Cougars. They made good power, are super reliable, are easy to service, and spare parts are inexpensive and readily available should you need them. They also respond really well to modifications, and there's a huge aftermarket of performance parts available, if that's your thing. If it weren't for the really spectacular engine options, such as the CJ and Boss 302 that were available, and the 351C coming out the very next year and stealing the spotlight, the 351W would be held in much higher regard, IMO. FWIW, over in Mustang world, the 351W 2V was several steps up from what was standard, so there is a premium associated with it there.
Speaking of Mustangs, nice GT! Prices on clean Foxbody's are steadily rising, so I'd be reluctant to part with such a nice example. I have an '89 5.0 LX, and while its a very different car from my '69 Cougar, its satisfying in its own way.
Anyway, I hope you're able to work something out with the current owner. Its a great looking Cougar, and it deserves to be back in the hands of someone who will give it the love and care you so obviously did. Oh, and thanks for your service!
Every post I make comes with a request for corrections. I'm here to learn.

1969 Cougar Eliminator 351 4V, yellow
1970 Cougar Eliminator 428SCJ, black

swoop1156
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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#9

Post by swoop1156 » 24 Sep 2018, 08:50

cj750 wrote:
24 Sep 2018, 08:42
Cool car, although as you've discovered, its not an Eliminator. Besides the "H" in the VIN, a few other things give it away: The chrome fenderwell moldings, the spacing of the rear spoiler pedestals, and the low-back bucket seat. Value is very hard to pin down based on all the unknowns at this point. As mentioned, condition of the body plays a large role.Determining what engine is actually in it could potentially make a big difference as well. A legitimate 428 Cobra Jet engine and matching C6 are worth several thousand all by themselves, even if not original to the car.
That said, I'll nitpick MercuryDon's phrasing of the H-code being "the least desirable." That's one way to put it, but there's actually nothing undesirable about the 351W 2V that was installed in the '69-'70 Cougars. They made good power, are super reliable, are easy to service, and spare parts are inexpensive and readily available should you need them. They also respond really well to modifications, and there's a huge aftermarket of performance parts available, if that's your thing. If it weren't for the really spectacular engine options, such as the CJ and Boss 302 that were available, and the 351C coming out the very next year and stealing the spotlight, the 351W would be held in much higher regard, IMO. FWIW, over in Mustang world, the 351W 2V was several steps up from what was standard, so there is a premium associated with it there.
Speaking of Mustangs, nice GT! Prices on clean Foxbody's are steadily rising, so I'd be reluctant to part with such a nice example. I have an '89 5.0 LX, and while its a very different car from my '69 Cougar, its satisfying in its own way.
Anyway, I hope you're able to work something out with the current owner. Its a great looking Cougar, and it deserves to be back in the hands of someone who will give it the love and care you so obviously did. Oh, and thanks for your service!
Crazy informative post, thank you! Regarding the spacing of the rear spoiler, that's wild. So that would mean it was installed after the fact? I used all morning at work to be able to spot the difference in a Windsor vs. Cleveland, as well as spotting a 428, just in case. You never know.

I sent him a Facebook message requesting additional info such as interior and engine bay pictures, and asked about the running and driving condition and mileage.

I'll be sure to keep this thread updated and hey -- maybe we'll be adding another one to the list.

My GT is super clean, and aside from wheels, tires and a full exhaust from headers back -- completely stock. It'll be hard to part with if it comes to that. We'll see!

Thanks again for the reply!

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Re: After searching for 15 years for my childhood '69 Cougar, I'm this close to buying - looking for assistance in prici

#10

Post by 93RGTE » 24 Sep 2018, 09:11

Over the years I've chased down a couple of cars that "got away." One was a BOSS 302, another an '81 VW Scirocco - both sweet cars in different ways. What I found was one that was modified beyond hope (idiot!) and the other neglected beyond hope. I just had to sigh and walk away. All the care you put into your car when you were young was no match for the neglect it later received. Of course it's your call how to spend your money, but 5 years from now you'll kick yourself around the block if you sell your Mustang. It looks great - nice, tasteful, factory looking mods. Foxes are coming into their prime age for nostalgia, so you'll never replace it for whatever you paid. Plus they are just such a hoot to drive. As everyone here is sick of me saying, I have 480,000 original miles on mine, and I get out giggling every time I drive it.
Gary

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